Alleged thief remains free after multiple DMCA filings, using the same accounts
by Coke Supply, Investigative Reporter
[Coke Supply's motorcycle copybot investigation continues - the editrix ]
Investigating further, I soon discovered that this was not the first time that Black/Biack had been caught stealing motorbikes. And it wasn't the first time the Saints of Hell group had covered up for his crimes either. He had also been reported to Linden Lab for copying one of Lincoln Braveheart's motorbikes, the “Wild Injun”.
I decided to speak to Lincoln to find out more. Having told him of my desire to write this story for the Herald, he provided me with the background to this previous theft, along with the transcripts of a few conversations that took place between him and two members of the Saints of Hell group.
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Coke Supply: Hello Lincoln. I'm writing an article for the Herald about a member of the Saints of Hell group stealing other people's bikes to sell in their sim, and I was wondering if you would like to comment?Lincoln Braveheart: Yes, of course. I had a bike stolen by Black Lisle. I created a bike called the Wild Injun, created from sculpties made by a variety of creators, including Trinity Hunghi. I believe the theft occurred during a show I had entered at Whiskey River. At the same time, my Harley repro was also botted by someone else. The chain guard and rear fender crash bar were both a signature of my Indian, which until that time, had never been shown before anywhere else. I was unaware of the theft until Redtail informed me that one of his bikes had been stolen and was being sold at the Saints of Hell sim.
Coke Supply: As I understand it, Redtail had already filed a DMCA for every bike in the store at this point?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes. Redtail was already chasing Black Lisle about his Lakhota Rocket before I found my Indian bikes on sale at the Saints of Hell sim. Trinity made the engine oil galley being used on the stolen version of my bike exclusively for the "Lakhota Rocket", which was how Redtail managed to identify the Wild Injun bike as being stolen. Black Lisle had taken the "Injun" name and put it to the copybotted version of Red's bike, and took Red's engine and put it to the copybotted version of my bike. Black Lisle's name showed as the creator on every part of both bikes, which was clearly not possible, as Red does not sell the sculpt maps to any of the parts he uses, and anyone who builds and assembles bikes will know who made which part. I have networked quite a bit in assembling bikes, have over 10,000 in parts inventory alone, by tons of suppliers and creators. I assemble, not sculpt. Therefore I use a lot of different people's parts, and keep good relations with them and respect their creations. Tater Skytower is the supplier for my Indian front and rear fenders. I also believe that Redtail Magic uses them. Red and I are of the very few that assemble Indians. Mine are early models. Red's are late models. Also, Karyn Vaher's parts are on that bike - the fuel tank, running boards, rear fender crash bar, headlamp, etc. The frame is from Lexei Glas. Yet everything on Black's bike lists him as the creator. I keep lists of all the part suppliers for every motorcycle I assemble,and those lists are available to anyone upon request, no questions asked.
Coke Supply: OK so Redtail filed the DMCA because he saw his engine on the bike, but in fact the entire bike was copybotted from the one that you assembled from parts legitimately obtained from various creators?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes.
Coke Supply: So when November Shelman and Amelia Hainsworth were saying that Black was cleared by Linden Lab - what was that about?
Lincoln Braveheart: They were only saying that because they heard that a DMCA had been filed.
Coke Supply: So this was said before the DMCA was resolved?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes.
Coke Supply: So, when they said that Black was cleared of wrongdoing, they were just talking shit because Linden Lab had not taken action yet?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes lol
Coke Supply: So what happened after the DMCA was resolved in your favour? The bikes in the images you sent me are still being sold at the Saints of Hell sim as we speak.
Lincoln Braveheart: I've only just found that out. Black must have re-uploaded the bike under the Biack account and put it out for sale again after Linden Lab removed it from his inventory. That's how he can get away with saying that Linden Lab found him innocent - by pretending that the bike never got deleted in the first place.
Coke Supply: Ah, I see. So will you be sending a new DMCA to Linden Lab?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes, of course ;)
Lincoln Braveheart: Just looking at my copybotted Indian.
Amelia Hainsworth: Really... 'cause I don't see that here. I see a bike that my bro built.
Lincoln Braveheart: Behind you. It's copyrighted.
November Shelman: Too bad Linden Labs cleared that up already.
Lincoln Braveheart: My signature chain guard and rear crash bar. A DMCA is already filed.
Amelia Hainsworth: As my brother said, it has already been cleared by Linden labs. But you are of course welcome to contact Sims Rang or Brutus Mcmahon or the creator Biack Lisle.
Amelia Hainsworth ejected and banned you from this land.
November Shelman: I got your number nitch(sic) and by the way, Linden Labs has cleared that bike AND its creator, but since you chose to come here and slander his name in open chat I will see to it that you pay dearly for your crime, and you just go right ahead and cry about it 'cause everything I do to you will be within the confines of Second Life Terms of Service.
(no response)
November Shelman: That's what I thought pussy. You ain't got shit to say.
Lincoln Braveheart: Awesome!
Redtail Magic: Just waiting on the others to be removed :)
Lincoln Braveheart: Can you forward that to Zara Yip, we were just talking about that. She was trying to help.
Redtail Magic: Sure thing. Just doing the rounds now.
I decided to speak to Biack Lisle directly, to see what he might have to say for himself regarding his shiny new bikes.
Coke Supply : Where can I get them from?
BIack Lisle : Try a search for motorcycle parts, but be careful not to lay your hands on shit that turns out to be stolen otherwise you'll have people asking you innocently where you purchased your parts from.
Coke Supply : Oh I see. Is that what happened to you? I saw the sign at the Saints of Hell store.
BIack Lisle : Apparently so, but I am yet to see any proof, just accusations.
Coke Supply : Hmm, maybe I will lay off making bikes for the time being.
BIack Lisle : Use Karyn. Let me find you a landmark. She is 100% kosher.
Coke Supply : Ah OK, cool. I'm a builder. I've never done bikes though. I didn't know bikes could be made so well until I saw these ones.
BIack Lisle : They are fun, until the claims of copybotting come along. But the claims are just that. I have sent Linden Lab video of people actually botting, and nothing ever happened.
Coke Supply : Well, I guess that if the sculpties can be found all over Second Life, then it's only a matter of time before someone accuses someone else of copying.
BIack Lisle : Yup, my shit is out there. Nothing I can do over it.
Coke Supply : Yes I have complained to them of people that have entire sims full of stolen items and Linden Lab haven't done shit about it.
BIack Lisle : Everyone that has made a decent bike has been botted and their shit is for sale somewhere. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mojave%20Desert/216/200/23 This place is Kosher, good looking honest work. Prices aren't bad either.
Coke Supply : Ah cool. I will have a look. Thank you Biack.
BIack Lisle : Very welcome.
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I noticed four things. First, Biack claimed that the parts were found all over Second Life, yet avoided answering my initial inquiry of where they could be found. Second, Biack inadvertently admitted that the bike contained stolen parts. Third, the Saints of Hell owner, Sims Rang, claims the exact opposite. Finally, the SLURL that Biack provided me with took me to the one creator of the parts on his bike that sold the original sculpt maps, Karyn Vaher. Therefore, it was impossible to tell either way if he had illegally copybotted any of her parts.
YET ANOTHER THEFT
The next name on my list was Motor Loon, who is a seller of motorbikes that had previous dealings with Black, and detailed yet another story of theft by him.
Coke Supply: Long story short - I'm writing up a story for the Herald regarding the theft of Redtail Magic's Lakhota Rocket motorbike, and Lincoln Braveheart's Wild Injun motorbike, and I was hoping I could get some information from you. Do you know Redtail Magic? He and a friend of his have had a few thefts recently, and it appears that the person responsible is in a group that is helping him to sell the bikes in question.
Motor Loon: Interesting. What group is that?
Coke Supply: The Saints of Hell Motorbike Club.
Motor Loon: As far as I know, Redtail is not the copybotter.
Coke Supply: Oh I already know that - I've seen the build dates and spoken to the others that helped build the bikes. Basically, I was given a list of names of all the affected parties and your name was on that list, which is how I ended up IM'ing you. I was under the impression that you might have either helped Redtail on the bike, or sold parts you made to him to use on the bike? Or perhaps been a victim of this thief in the past?
Motor Loon: Ah I see. Well, since I don't sell parts at all (only complete bikes) no builder could be using my parts legally. I have had a few issues with people ripping of my stuff in the past, but it hasn't been too bad. I've only filed two DMCA actions in the last 3 years, so I've been lucky. However, my parts and bikes are too well known for people to try and pass off as their own. The recent incident with one of Red's bikes, I do know the guy he DMCA'd. And yes, I have had issues with him in the past (The Black Lisle / Biack Lisle guy).
Coke Supply: Yes, that's the names of the accounts I'm investigating! What happened, if it's OK to ask?
Motor Loon: I have seen Black use some of my stuff in the past. However, back then I didn't file a DMCA since it was minor stuff and it didn't seem worth the trouble. Anyway, I was later informed of Black Lisle being naughty again, and possibly misusing my parts as well. So, I sent someone to check up on it, but there was nothing I held the rights on there. So I backed off again. I was later approached by members of the Saints of Hell Motorbike Club, who thought I had been sending people over there to harass Black, which was not the case. So, although at this time I had no issue with Black, I understood that he DID use some of Red's parts illegally and perhaps others, but I am unsure. I know that Red filed a DMCA and Linden Labs removed at least one bike from Black's inventory as a result. I had a long conversation with his club president the first time around, a girl named Sims Rang. I was merely informing her of one of her members being way out of line and giving her club a bad name, but she didn't really care about it and took his side - and has done so ever since. I guess the club benefits from the money the bike sales bring in. That, in my book, makes the entire club as guilty as Black.
Coke Supply: We are on exactly the same page here Motor. That's probably what the Herald article is going to say, only, at the rate I'm going, it will have an awful lot of proof to go with it too.
Motor Loon: Sounds good. Let me check my records regarding Black and see if I have any useful information for you there... This is part of a conversation, I think from Jan 09;
Motor Loon: The engine blocks, cylinders, pushrods, ignition and transmission primaries are my work, and this is copyright infringement. I'm afraid even if you bought them from this Oyster guy, they are still stolen copyrighted items.
BIack Lisle: You certain about that? It's not a huge issue to me really, as I am making new ones.
Motor Loon: Of course I'm sure. I made them. I could recognise them anywhere. I'm going to have to file a DMCA on this.
BIack Lisle: You'd better be certain, 'cause they ain't hard to make. Well, not overly hard, I should say.
Motor Loon: Oh, I'm certain. This is not a remake. These are my copyrighted sculpt maps ripped from my bikes.
BIack Lisle: The maps are alpha protected, so even I can't rip them.
Motor Loon: It doesn't matter. The guy you bought them from ripped them. They are still stolen property.
BIack Lisle: Well, do what you feel you have to do, man.
Motor Loon: I will.
BIack Lisle: I had the first sculpty motors in Second Life.
Motor Loon: Nope.
BIack Lisle: Er, yes. Over a year with sculpty motors.
Motor Loon: I run a 10 million Linden business. This is not the first time my products are getting ripped off. You can go to my main store and look yourself. Just type MLCC on the world map.
BIack Lisle: That one has the first sculpt motor in Second Life. That was my first release.
Motor Loon: I've been in business for two years and did my first sculpted motor as soon as the sculpty capable viewer came out. But that doesn't matter anyway - it's the other bikes you have here that are the problem. Your handlebar grips are mine too.
Coke Supply: No, I think he definitely stole it. Your testimony corroborates the recent theft, as well as corroborating the fact that the management of the group are protecting Black.
Motor Loon: Well actually, a lot of the stolen stuff was with the creator Bambii Boucher's name. Bambii had owner's rights in the group Black used for his bikes. Along with Sims Rang, Imogene Lisle and Biack Lisle.
Coke Supply: Yes. There's 5 owners in the Saints of Hell group right now, so that makes sense.
Motor Loon: Indeed. Note that Black has two accounts.... Black and Biack. Because of Second Life's font, the L and I looks alot the same, and can confuse.
Coke Supply: Yeah I noticed that too.
Motor Loon: Anyway, to sum up, I have seen first hand illegal parts on Black's bikes, including my own. But I haven't filed a DMCA on him which means it's hard to prove these days.
Coke Supply: Oh, it's OK, you won't need to - there's enough evidence on him already to expose him - and the group itself.
Motor Loon: Oh yes. Just the fact that Black didn't dispute the DMCA means he admits it's not his copyrights.
Coke Supply: Yes, of course. But now, Sims Rang is saying that she's a copyright lawyer and will file a counter claim - but to be honest, I think that's all bullshit.
Motor Loon: Yep, I agree. Sims is no lawyer. Anyways, it's too late for a counter-claim.
Coke Supply: Yes, I agree. Anyway, is there anything else I should know? Could you point me in the direction of someone else that I could get a statement from regarding this story?
Motor Loon: One to talk to about copyright violations regarding bike builders in Second Life would be Hiiigh Jinx. He has done a LOT of work to help people out with these matters, and I think he will know more about the situation than I do.
Coke Supply: Thank you, I will do that. He was one of the names on my list.
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I was very surprised to hear that Black/Biack had been involved with copying other people's creations as early as January 2009. At least 8 DMCAs had been filed on him since December that I was made aware of during my investigations, so surely, in the space of an entire year, it stands to reason that other DMCAs were filed upon him by other victims. Why on Earth was his account allowed to stay open for so long? His account had only just been removed in January 2010, a full year after Motor caught him stealing in January 2009. That is one hell of a success streak for any thief. How could he have gotten away with his thefts for so long? I wondered if the real-life filing of copyright on the stolen bikes, as claimed by Sims Rang, was the reason why Black had kept his account for all that time. However, Sims had subsequently claimed that the bikes had NOT been copyrighted, meaning that I questioned her integrity and was unsure which version of her story was true.
As advised, I decided to talk to Hiiigh Jinx to see what else I could find out.
Hiiigh Jinx: Sure. There are 4 parts on Red's bike which were created by me - the chrome gas tank speedometer, the fuel lines, the gearbox and kicker and the 4th part was the igntion key set. My sim is the ONLY place in Second Life I sell my products. I do not sell them on Xstreet either.
Coke Supply: So what was the deal with the bike?
Hiiigh Jinx: We produce car and bike sculpts and scripts for builders. They are sold full perm with a terms of sale.
Coke Supply: Ah I see. So that's how your parts ended up in the bike, right?
Hiiigh Jinx: The parts that are in the copybotted bike, no. They are in Black Lisle's name. That's actually impossible with my products as I do NOT provide the sculpt maps. Black Lisle copybotted them. It's the only way to make his name as the creator, and this is the reason I NEVER supply sculpt maps - it's a clear-cut case of theft if my parts end up in someone else's name.
Coke Supply: And they got into the original bike because Redtail bought them from you to use in that bike, right?
Hiiigh Jinx: The parts in the original bike were purchased from me, by Redtail Magic. The stolen bike has the same sculpts but they are in the thief's name. Basically, RedTail built the bike, using various creator's products, legally, and then Black Lisle copybotted the entire finished bike. I deal with content theft on a daily basis and have a good strike rate, but we can't work out how they keep getting away with it.
Coke Supply: Who are the other builders whose work appear on the other bike?
Jinx: Karyn Vaher, Hiiigh Jinx, Trinity Hunghi and Redtail Magic. Well, in this case the original bike has Karyn's name as creator on some parts, but she also sells the sculpt maps, which makes it harder to prove theft on those parts.
Coke Supply: But the others don't sell their sculpt maps?
Hiiigh Jinx: No. NEVER.
Coke Supply: OK, I see.
Hiiigh Jinx: I run the BAICT (Bikers Against Intellectual Copyright Theft) which will be taking over from the BBU (Bike Builders Union). In the last 12 months there has been an estimated 7 million Lindens worth of parts and scripts illegally traded or copybotted that I know about, from my business alone. That's around 28000 US dollars. As a group we have filed over 40 DMCAs in the last 12 months. The majority have been successful. Usually, the ones that seem to be successful and swift are the ones filed on unknowns. At one stage in around march 09, there was a definite team of offenders. March, April and May were wild. It was the first time when we collectively stood up for ourselves as a group, as it was happening 4 or 5 times in a day. Now, it happens once or twice in a month. The scripts are now security coded, and send me a message when someone tries to do anything with my products that they shouldn't be doing with them.
Coke Supply : I hear that this particular thief isn't getting touched by Linden Lab at all. According to my sources, he's been stealing bikes for the Saints of Hell for about a year now.
Hiiigh Jinx: Yes. We can't understand why they keep getting away with it.
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The conversations with Motor Loon and Hiiigh Jinx were very interesting indeed. It appeared that after multiple DMCA filings, the thief was still there, using the same accounts, setting out for sale the very items that the DMCA filings were meant to deprive him of. The situation was appalling. Not only were all the members of the group that we spoke to blindly defending Black/Biack as a legitimate and skilled content creator, but he also seemed impervious to multiple DMCA actions filed against him by the very creators from which he was stealing from.
Coke Supply: OK so Redtail filed the DMCA because he saw his engine on the bike, but in fact the entire bike was copybotted from the one that you assembled from parts legitimately obtained from various creators?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes.
Coke Supply: So when November Shelman and Amelia Hainsworth were saying that Black was cleared by Linden Lab - what was that about?
Lincoln Braveheart: They were only saying that because they heard that a DMCA had been filed.
Coke Supply: So this was said before the DMCA was resolved?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes.
Coke Supply: So, when they said that Black was cleared of wrongdoing, they were just talking shit because Linden Lab had not taken action yet?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes lol
Coke Supply: So what happened after the DMCA was resolved in your favour? The bikes in the images you sent me are still being sold at the Saints of Hell sim as we speak.
Lincoln Braveheart: I've only just found that out. Black must have re-uploaded the bike under the Biack account and put it out for sale again after Linden Lab removed it from his inventory. That's how he can get away with saying that Linden Lab found him innocent - by pretending that the bike never got deleted in the first place.
Coke Supply: Ah, I see. So will you be sending a new DMCA to Linden Lab?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes, of course ;)
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Lincoln sent me a folder full of notecards and images relating to the theft of the Wild Injun bike. The notecards were of special interest, detailing the conversations held between himself and two members of the Saints of Hell group who were trying to cover up for Black's crimes.
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Amelia Hainsworth: Hey Lincoln. You need help?Lincoln Braveheart: Just looking at my copybotted Indian.
Amelia Hainsworth: Really... 'cause I don't see that here. I see a bike that my bro built.
Lincoln Braveheart: Behind you. It's copyrighted.
November Shelman: Too bad Linden Labs cleared that up already.
Lincoln Braveheart: My signature chain guard and rear crash bar. A DMCA is already filed.
Amelia Hainsworth: As my brother said, it has already been cleared by Linden labs. But you are of course welcome to contact Sims Rang or Brutus Mcmahon or the creator Biack Lisle.
Amelia Hainsworth ejected and banned you from this land.
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The second "conversation" details a torrent of abuse from November Shelman:===================================
November Shelman: It's interesting how you are the second one to claim that's your bike. Seems to me all Indians look alike, you stupid fuck. So how can anyone tell if it's copied? Duh, what a fucking tard.November Shelman: I got your number nitch(sic) and by the way, Linden Labs has cleared that bike AND its creator, but since you chose to come here and slander his name in open chat I will see to it that you pay dearly for your crime, and you just go right ahead and cry about it 'cause everything I do to you will be within the confines of Second Life Terms of Service.
(no response)
November Shelman: That's what I thought pussy. You ain't got shit to say.
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Linden Lab disagrees. The above commentary by Amelia Hainsworth and November Shelman are easily thrown into doubt when reading the results of the DMCA filing made by Redtail Magic on December 31st 2009;===================================
Redtail Magic: Linden Lab has received your notification of copyright infringement under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”), 17 U.S.C. § 512. After having reviewed your notification: In compliance with the DMCA, the following work(s) have been expeditiously removed or disabled: Description of work(s):SLC Injun v13SLC Injun v12.9.5 Location of Work(s):Saints of Hell (233,215,45) Inventory of Black Lisle Sincerely, Linden Lab
Redtail Magic: :)Lincoln Braveheart: Awesome!
Redtail Magic: Just waiting on the others to be removed :)
Lincoln Braveheart: Can you forward that to Zara Yip, we were just talking about that. She was trying to help.
Redtail Magic: Sure thing. Just doing the rounds now.
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Lincoln Braveheart's bike, the Wild Injun, was placed back in the Saints of Hell store immediately after the DMCA was successfully resolved in Redtail's favour. Curiously, Linden Lab left Redtail's bikes in the store, and decided to keep both the Black and Biack accounts open at this point in time. Although the Black account disappeared shortly after I began my investigation, fresh copies of the Wild Injun and Lakhota Rocket were placed into the Saints of Hell store under the Biack account on the 11th of January 2010, with every single prim in the bikes listing their creation date as 11th January 2010 too.===================================
A CHAT WITH BIACK LISLEI decided to speak to Biack Lisle directly, to see what he might have to say for himself regarding his shiny new bikes.
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Coke Supply: Hello Biack. I was wondering, who did you get the parts from to build your bikes?
BIack Lisle : Some purchased and some made.Coke Supply : Where can I get them from?
BIack Lisle : Try a search for motorcycle parts, but be careful not to lay your hands on shit that turns out to be stolen otherwise you'll have people asking you innocently where you purchased your parts from.
Coke Supply : Oh I see. Is that what happened to you? I saw the sign at the Saints of Hell store.
BIack Lisle : Apparently so, but I am yet to see any proof, just accusations.
Coke Supply : Hmm, maybe I will lay off making bikes for the time being.
BIack Lisle : Use Karyn. Let me find you a landmark. She is 100% kosher.
Coke Supply : Ah OK, cool. I'm a builder. I've never done bikes though. I didn't know bikes could be made so well until I saw these ones.
BIack Lisle : They are fun, until the claims of copybotting come along. But the claims are just that. I have sent Linden Lab video of people actually botting, and nothing ever happened.
Coke Supply : Well, I guess that if the sculpties can be found all over Second Life, then it's only a matter of time before someone accuses someone else of copying.
BIack Lisle : Yup, my shit is out there. Nothing I can do over it.
Coke Supply : Yes I have complained to them of people that have entire sims full of stolen items and Linden Lab haven't done shit about it.
BIack Lisle : Everyone that has made a decent bike has been botted and their shit is for sale somewhere. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mojave%20Desert/216/200/23 This place is Kosher, good looking honest work. Prices aren't bad either.
Coke Supply : Ah cool. I will have a look. Thank you Biack.
BIack Lisle : Very welcome.
===================================
I noticed four things. First, Biack claimed that the parts were found all over Second Life, yet avoided answering my initial inquiry of where they could be found. Second, Biack inadvertently admitted that the bike contained stolen parts. Third, the Saints of Hell owner, Sims Rang, claims the exact opposite. Finally, the SLURL that Biack provided me with took me to the one creator of the parts on his bike that sold the original sculpt maps, Karyn Vaher. Therefore, it was impossible to tell either way if he had illegally copybotted any of her parts.
===================================
YET ANOTHER THEFT
The next name on my list was Motor Loon, who is a seller of motorbikes that had previous dealings with Black, and detailed yet another story of theft by him.
===================================
Coke Supply: Hello Motor, do you have a moment to chat with me?
Motor Loon: What's up Coke?Coke Supply: Long story short - I'm writing up a story for the Herald regarding the theft of Redtail Magic's Lakhota Rocket motorbike, and Lincoln Braveheart's Wild Injun motorbike, and I was hoping I could get some information from you. Do you know Redtail Magic? He and a friend of his have had a few thefts recently, and it appears that the person responsible is in a group that is helping him to sell the bikes in question.
Motor Loon: Interesting. What group is that?
Coke Supply: The Saints of Hell Motorbike Club.
Motor Loon: As far as I know, Redtail is not the copybotter.
Coke Supply: Oh I already know that - I've seen the build dates and spoken to the others that helped build the bikes. Basically, I was given a list of names of all the affected parties and your name was on that list, which is how I ended up IM'ing you. I was under the impression that you might have either helped Redtail on the bike, or sold parts you made to him to use on the bike? Or perhaps been a victim of this thief in the past?
Motor Loon: Ah I see. Well, since I don't sell parts at all (only complete bikes) no builder could be using my parts legally. I have had a few issues with people ripping of my stuff in the past, but it hasn't been too bad. I've only filed two DMCA actions in the last 3 years, so I've been lucky. However, my parts and bikes are too well known for people to try and pass off as their own. The recent incident with one of Red's bikes, I do know the guy he DMCA'd. And yes, I have had issues with him in the past (The Black Lisle / Biack Lisle guy).
Coke Supply: Yes, that's the names of the accounts I'm investigating! What happened, if it's OK to ask?
Motor Loon: I have seen Black use some of my stuff in the past. However, back then I didn't file a DMCA since it was minor stuff and it didn't seem worth the trouble. Anyway, I was later informed of Black Lisle being naughty again, and possibly misusing my parts as well. So, I sent someone to check up on it, but there was nothing I held the rights on there. So I backed off again. I was later approached by members of the Saints of Hell Motorbike Club, who thought I had been sending people over there to harass Black, which was not the case. So, although at this time I had no issue with Black, I understood that he DID use some of Red's parts illegally and perhaps others, but I am unsure. I know that Red filed a DMCA and Linden Labs removed at least one bike from Black's inventory as a result. I had a long conversation with his club president the first time around, a girl named Sims Rang. I was merely informing her of one of her members being way out of line and giving her club a bad name, but she didn't really care about it and took his side - and has done so ever since. I guess the club benefits from the money the bike sales bring in. That, in my book, makes the entire club as guilty as Black.
Coke Supply: We are on exactly the same page here Motor. That's probably what the Herald article is going to say, only, at the rate I'm going, it will have an awful lot of proof to go with it too.
Motor Loon: Sounds good. Let me check my records regarding Black and see if I have any useful information for you there... This is part of a conversation, I think from Jan 09;
===================================
Motor Loon: I'm afraid you got ripped off then... Oyster Sak didn't make these.
BIack Lisle: Why do you say that?Motor Loon: The engine blocks, cylinders, pushrods, ignition and transmission primaries are my work, and this is copyright infringement. I'm afraid even if you bought them from this Oyster guy, they are still stolen copyrighted items.
BIack Lisle: You certain about that? It's not a huge issue to me really, as I am making new ones.
Motor Loon: Of course I'm sure. I made them. I could recognise them anywhere. I'm going to have to file a DMCA on this.
BIack Lisle: You'd better be certain, 'cause they ain't hard to make. Well, not overly hard, I should say.
Motor Loon: Oh, I'm certain. This is not a remake. These are my copyrighted sculpt maps ripped from my bikes.
BIack Lisle: The maps are alpha protected, so even I can't rip them.
Motor Loon: It doesn't matter. The guy you bought them from ripped them. They are still stolen property.
BIack Lisle: Well, do what you feel you have to do, man.
Motor Loon: I will.
BIack Lisle: I had the first sculpty motors in Second Life.
Motor Loon: Nope.
BIack Lisle: Er, yes. Over a year with sculpty motors.
Motor Loon: I run a 10 million Linden business. This is not the first time my products are getting ripped off. You can go to my main store and look yourself. Just type MLCC on the world map.
BIack Lisle: That one has the first sculpt motor in Second Life. That was my first release.
Motor Loon: I've been in business for two years and did my first sculpted motor as soon as the sculpty capable viewer came out. But that doesn't matter anyway - it's the other bikes you have here that are the problem. Your handlebar grips are mine too.
===================================
Motor Loon: ...Nothing major, but shows just how much he really cares about using stolen stuff. Whether he stole it himself or not.Coke Supply: No, I think he definitely stole it. Your testimony corroborates the recent theft, as well as corroborating the fact that the management of the group are protecting Black.
Motor Loon: Well actually, a lot of the stolen stuff was with the creator Bambii Boucher's name. Bambii had owner's rights in the group Black used for his bikes. Along with Sims Rang, Imogene Lisle and Biack Lisle.
Coke Supply: Yes. There's 5 owners in the Saints of Hell group right now, so that makes sense.
Motor Loon: Indeed. Note that Black has two accounts.... Black and Biack. Because of Second Life's font, the L and I looks alot the same, and can confuse.
Coke Supply: Yeah I noticed that too.
Motor Loon: Anyway, to sum up, I have seen first hand illegal parts on Black's bikes, including my own. But I haven't filed a DMCA on him which means it's hard to prove these days.
Coke Supply: Oh, it's OK, you won't need to - there's enough evidence on him already to expose him - and the group itself.
Motor Loon: Oh yes. Just the fact that Black didn't dispute the DMCA means he admits it's not his copyrights.
Coke Supply: Yes, of course. But now, Sims Rang is saying that she's a copyright lawyer and will file a counter claim - but to be honest, I think that's all bullshit.
Motor Loon: Yep, I agree. Sims is no lawyer. Anyways, it's too late for a counter-claim.
Coke Supply: Yes, I agree. Anyway, is there anything else I should know? Could you point me in the direction of someone else that I could get a statement from regarding this story?
Motor Loon: One to talk to about copyright violations regarding bike builders in Second Life would be Hiiigh Jinx. He has done a LOT of work to help people out with these matters, and I think he will know more about the situation than I do.
Coke Supply: Thank you, I will do that. He was one of the names on my list.
===================================
I was very surprised to hear that Black/Biack had been involved with copying other people's creations as early as January 2009. At least 8 DMCAs had been filed on him since December that I was made aware of during my investigations, so surely, in the space of an entire year, it stands to reason that other DMCAs were filed upon him by other victims. Why on Earth was his account allowed to stay open for so long? His account had only just been removed in January 2010, a full year after Motor caught him stealing in January 2009. That is one hell of a success streak for any thief. How could he have gotten away with his thefts for so long? I wondered if the real-life filing of copyright on the stolen bikes, as claimed by Sims Rang, was the reason why Black had kept his account for all that time. However, Sims had subsequently claimed that the bikes had NOT been copyrighted, meaning that I questioned her integrity and was unsure which version of her story was true.
As advised, I decided to talk to Hiiigh Jinx to see what else I could find out.
===================================
Hiiigh Jinx: Hey, you were looking for me?
Coke Supply: Yes, I was hoping we could have a chat about the theft of Lincoln Braveheart and Redtail Magic's motorbikes. The more info I have, the better, so I'm talking to everyone involved - I need all the specific details you can give.Hiiigh Jinx: Sure. There are 4 parts on Red's bike which were created by me - the chrome gas tank speedometer, the fuel lines, the gearbox and kicker and the 4th part was the igntion key set. My sim is the ONLY place in Second Life I sell my products. I do not sell them on Xstreet either.
Coke Supply: So what was the deal with the bike?
Hiiigh Jinx: We produce car and bike sculpts and scripts for builders. They are sold full perm with a terms of sale.
Coke Supply: Ah I see. So that's how your parts ended up in the bike, right?
Hiiigh Jinx: The parts that are in the copybotted bike, no. They are in Black Lisle's name. That's actually impossible with my products as I do NOT provide the sculpt maps. Black Lisle copybotted them. It's the only way to make his name as the creator, and this is the reason I NEVER supply sculpt maps - it's a clear-cut case of theft if my parts end up in someone else's name.
Coke Supply: And they got into the original bike because Redtail bought them from you to use in that bike, right?
Hiiigh Jinx: The parts in the original bike were purchased from me, by Redtail Magic. The stolen bike has the same sculpts but they are in the thief's name. Basically, RedTail built the bike, using various creator's products, legally, and then Black Lisle copybotted the entire finished bike. I deal with content theft on a daily basis and have a good strike rate, but we can't work out how they keep getting away with it.
Coke Supply: Who are the other builders whose work appear on the other bike?
Jinx: Karyn Vaher, Hiiigh Jinx, Trinity Hunghi and Redtail Magic. Well, in this case the original bike has Karyn's name as creator on some parts, but she also sells the sculpt maps, which makes it harder to prove theft on those parts.
Coke Supply: But the others don't sell their sculpt maps?
Hiiigh Jinx: No. NEVER.
Coke Supply: OK, I see.
Hiiigh Jinx: I run the BAICT (Bikers Against Intellectual Copyright Theft) which will be taking over from the BBU (Bike Builders Union). In the last 12 months there has been an estimated 7 million Lindens worth of parts and scripts illegally traded or copybotted that I know about, from my business alone. That's around 28000 US dollars. As a group we have filed over 40 DMCAs in the last 12 months. The majority have been successful. Usually, the ones that seem to be successful and swift are the ones filed on unknowns. At one stage in around march 09, there was a definite team of offenders. March, April and May were wild. It was the first time when we collectively stood up for ourselves as a group, as it was happening 4 or 5 times in a day. Now, it happens once or twice in a month. The scripts are now security coded, and send me a message when someone tries to do anything with my products that they shouldn't be doing with them.
Coke Supply : I hear that this particular thief isn't getting touched by Linden Lab at all. According to my sources, he's been stealing bikes for the Saints of Hell for about a year now.
Hiiigh Jinx: Yes. We can't understand why they keep getting away with it.
===================================
The conversations with Motor Loon and Hiiigh Jinx were very interesting indeed. It appeared that after multiple DMCA filings, the thief was still there, using the same accounts, setting out for sale the very items that the DMCA filings were meant to deprive him of. The situation was appalling. Not only were all the members of the group that we spoke to blindly defending Black/Biack as a legitimate and skilled content creator, but he also seemed impervious to multiple DMCA actions filed against him by the very creators from which he was stealing from.
And what I found most disturbing of all is that everyone I spoke to from the Saints of Hell group seemed to know it.
[... TO BE CONTINUED ...]
Wow, you greedy drama fucks inspired me! Just for the sake of shutting you all down and ruining your chance at making "millions" [cough - exaggerate much?] of lindens I'm gonna make my own custom sculpty-trike replicas and give em away for free at every single freebie shop and opensim I can find! Now look out all you greedy muthas, I aint enabling mod on any of em! If I find anyone usin even one prim that looks like it came off my trikes I'm gonna report your to those mean old Lindens and slander your name JLU Vigilante style all over the interwebs!
Muhahaha! Feel my wrath greedy IP rights scumwads!
Posted by: LAME-o-MATIC 9000 | February 10, 2010 at 12:52 AM
lol... some comments just scream out the age of the writer don't they? ;-)
Posted by: Motor Loon | February 10, 2010 at 03:14 AM
Holy Double Guacamole DMCA Shinanigans!
Time to get some more popcorn as the saga unfolds.
I'm concerned about all the butter so I have decided to eat it plain. It's more healthy that way.
This whole saga made me write a little diddy and it goes like this:
I made a nice bike
I know you will like
It is a great bike
It makes me happy
Someone copied my bike
For them I have only dislike
They stole my great bike
I filed a DMCA
I wait, I wait
I miss my bike
I wait, I wait
Lindens make me angry
That's all I have so far. I don't have a melody designed yet. Still working on it.
Posted by: LittleLostLinden | February 10, 2010 at 08:37 AM
Just a heads up in support of the real creators here - Bambii Boucher is Black Lisle's ALT - that's right, he's a virtual cross-dresser (not that there's anything wrong with that lol), as well as a thief it appears. Imogene Lisle is Black Lisle's RL wife. < that is fact - I suspect she is also Sims Rang but I am not entirely sure about that. Enjoy... keep up the heat!!!
Posted by: The Truth and nothing but the Truth | February 10, 2010 at 09:50 AM
In the last 12 months there has been an estimated 7 million Lindens worth of parts and scripts illegally traded or copybotted that I know about, from my business alone
Now I'm not one to bitch here(I know I rant a bit), but 28k?
28 thousand dollars? That's more than my folks and I make in maybe two years let alone one.
I'm trying to be a bit nuetral in this case(although I can't stand copybotters like these SoH seem to be)but that just feels like a tad bit of an exagerration to me from a financial view.
Posted by: Gaara Sandalwood | February 10, 2010 at 10:33 AM
"Hiiigh Jinx: Yes. We can't understand why they keep getting away with it."
I will tell you why, Linden Lab is a greedy as the copybot users are, LL Will not take actions against paying customers, free basic accounts that copybot are usually deleted when reported in a matter of hours. but Premium accouts that own sims... Linden Lab could care less about your 1 or 2 Stolen prims, when the people stealing it pay Linden Lab thier Tier Fee on time every month. Want Proof; easy just look at all of these Articles, Forums, Blogs and even now tweets regarding Second Life, Theft and DMCA. You will begin to see a pattern except for in a few cases, Linden Lab WILL NOT punnish, suspend, Ban, or even delete a Paying customers account. Thoes Tier payments are just more important to LL then a set of handycap bars, or sexbed, or animation balls, or colthes, or hair, or scripts or even thier own bloody theft driven economy.
For all thoes who still can not understand I will put it in plain SL speak for you,
LL Don't give a fuk 4 ur silly pixels, just ur $
Posted by: LOL | February 10, 2010 at 11:23 AM
Seems the thief of the Real Life designs is still free and on the loose as well. :)
Posted by: Darien Caldwell | February 10, 2010 at 11:37 AM
It keeps coming up that every member of the Saints of Hell is a copybotter. But I have yet see pictures or chat logs showing that the copybotting took place while it was happening. There also fails to be a list of every member of the Saints of Hell and what each member copybotted. Show me active video log or chat log where copybotting is takingplace when it happens. Otherwise this a dead issue and this lousy reporter is beating a dead horse for no reason.
Posted by: Thanatos | February 10, 2010 at 12:25 PM
Well to me it has become very clear that this whole "investigation" and article is not about copybotting, it seems to be more about some people wanting to "get back" at a motorcycle group for banning or not liking them, and @Thanatos: what proof do you expect if the focus is just on their personal feelings?
Coke Supply: "2) GarrysRocknRoll Blitz doesn't exist anymore, and my guess is it's because he copybotted the bike you're talking about"
If it was about copybotting, do you think Coke would leave that standing there and not investigate why someone she presumes copybotted is using the Herald and her article to accuse others of the same thing? Anyone familiar with motorcycles who has been around SL awhile knows that GarrysRocknRoll Blitz now calls himself Hiigh Jinx and that he does pretty good profit on those bike contests that the LR probably won at his place. And some might even remember why he has good reasons to hide behind a new avatar.
I'll leave it at that, I am not keen on getting insulted, badmouthed and cussed at in internet discussions and this whole story is not worth the bandwidth it took to read it anyway.
"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Posted by: Slade | February 10, 2010 at 05:46 PM
This keeps getting better and better. I just ordered some pizza.
That ain't workin, that's the way you do it, makin prims for nuthin, and your DMCA for free.
I want my, I want my, I want my DMCA.
Look at that yoyo, sumthin, sumthin, yeah, that ain't working. Lindens fix the DMCA.
Posted by: LittleLostLinden | February 10, 2010 at 09:32 PM
Thanatos.....
"It keeps coming up that every member of the Saints of Hell is a copybotter."
Wrong.
"There also fails to be a list of every member of the Saints of Hell and what each member copybotted."
Read the herald before you post. I counted two accounts and two bikes so far.
"But I have yet see pictures or chat logs showing that the copybotting took place while it was happening. Show me active video log or chat log where copybotting is takingplace when it happens."
Whooa! You dont ask for much do you? How many times have you caught a copybotter red handed? I bet its zero isnt it.
"Otherwise this a dead issue and this lousy reporter is beating a dead horse for no reason."
Only if you were right Thanatos, only if you were right.
Posted by: Judge From The Fires | February 10, 2010 at 09:36 PM
They copied my bike.
They copied my bike.
Don't copy my bike!
I do not like!
It's my bike!
Linden's, help me, oh help me. It's my bike.
Sang to the tune of AC'DC Hell's Bells.
Posted by: LittleLostLinden | February 11, 2010 at 06:06 AM
"Sang to the tune of AC'DC Hell's Bells."
Really? To me it seemed a bit more like Dr. Seuss' Green Eggs and Ham. :)
Posted by: darien caldwell | February 11, 2010 at 11:44 AM